1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,240 The following tape recording was made December 5, 1957 and includes an interview with gentlemen 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,520 who witnessed an unidentified flying object. 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,520 At this time I'll ask the gentlemen to introduce themselves. 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,520 Well, Donald, I'm talking to the Detroit UFO Research Group. 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,520 Howdy, same thing. 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,520 Al Rowe, Detroit UFO Research Group. 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,040 Al Rowe, 696 West Maple, Higley Mission. 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,040 What was the locality of your observation line? 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:45,040 Approximately 7 miles southwest of Higley on F-34. 10 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:51,040 Would you love to carry this crap to the weather station at the time? 11 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,040 Well, it was a real dark night. 12 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:00,040 Matter of fact, there were not any stars at the other probably. 13 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,040 Weather conditions, dry, no rain. 14 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,040 After the wind I couldn't be too sure of that. 15 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,040 Well, what time is it? 16 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:17,040 The fire ground is frankly that would have been around between 7.30 to 8 o'clock at night. 17 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,040 Would you give us some of your background? 18 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,040 That is your observation, your placement of climate. 19 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,040 How did you get this name? 20 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,040 I'm a driver. 21 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,040 And what about your education? 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,040 Backgrounds of that type. 23 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,040 10 years. 24 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,040 Were you running the air poultry service? 25 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,040 No, I wasn't. 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,040 How long did you see the object? 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,040 We had the object in sight approximately 2 hours. 28 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,040 You were taking a little bit. 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,040 And when you say we, how long? 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,040 Who else along with you at the time was the object? 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,040 Oh, the famous Deputy Earl Smith. 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,040 You left my gun in search of her. 33 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,040 Or I shouldn't say I left her there. 34 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,040 And you witnessed this object flying over in the control car? 35 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,040 That's right. 36 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,040 Was there only one object? 37 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,040 One object. 38 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:22,040 And how did you have your first, how did your attention go on to the object? 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:27,040 Well, you were traveling west on M34. 40 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:33,040 You make a sharp left turn, going straight south. 41 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:39,040 I looked up the window and I noticed something red hanging there. 42 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,040 Or in the sky and I didn't pay too much attention to it at first. 43 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,040 And I looked again. 44 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,040 I had Deputy Smith. 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,040 Just what the heck is that over there? 46 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,040 He looked and said, what? 47 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,040 It looks like a reflection in the windshield. 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,040 Well, it had to be reflecting out here. 49 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,040 It's not a reflection. 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,040 He says, you're right. 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,040 He looked a little bit more. 52 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,040 He says, guys, I don't know why you should have started there. 53 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,040 I don't think so. 54 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,040 We didn't stop the control car and got off. 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:19,040 It was a German object that appeared to us to be just old maybe dumbest. 56 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,040 Oh, make the ice and freeze. 57 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:28,040 And we, a German object that raised sort of on the first position. 58 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:33,040 And then started away and sort of out of the, well, the icy at that time. 59 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,040 The guy was going to solve what's the direction. 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:42,040 We weren't sure what you would see. 61 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,040 Contacted the lesson. 62 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,040 He's the person that had confirmed. 63 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,040 And they also will spot the object. 64 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:57,040 And at that time they told us that it was cutting back north and then coming back east. 65 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,040 At that time there was another control car about that. 66 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,040 I went to Gordon, went. 67 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,040 They came up also. 68 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,040 Yeah. 69 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,040 And then we could follow it out of the eastern northeast direction. 70 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,040 Yeah, I believe you said earlier that decided it was quite bright. 71 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:20,040 And you said it was about seeing a star fall off. 72 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,040 That is at the end. 73 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,040 That's when we stopped watching it. 74 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,040 It looked like a bright star. 75 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,040 I see. 76 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:34,040 When I was close to the ground, however, and you were able to get a very close look at it. 77 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,040 It also appeared at that time to be a bright light. 78 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,040 Were you able to see what he doesn't outline? 79 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,040 You couldn't distinguish any outline. 80 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:49,040 Just a from a bright red light around the circular light. 81 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,040 Did it? 82 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,040 I mean, the full way. 83 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,040 Yeah. 84 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,040 Did you also mention that it changed color or did it? 85 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,040 No, I didn't. 86 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,040 But it did change. 87 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,040 I mean, red and it changed to white and then blue or blue is green. 88 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:10,040 And we get notices it came back in the northeast direction. 89 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:16,040 Then it was leaving a sort of a reddish cloud. 90 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:21,040 Like sometimes you grab a sun ray or a light bulb or what you would call it. 91 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,040 Yeah. 92 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,040 It made a reddish cast in the sky. 93 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,040 Now what about the new revolving of the object? 94 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,040 Was it traveling slower or did it change its speed at any time, direction, that sort of thing? 95 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,040 No, it seemed to be a pretty steady speed to me. 96 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,040 You didn't notice that it doesn't drop anything? 97 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,040 No. 98 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:41,040 Oh, it did. 99 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,040 Changed shape at all? 100 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,040 No. 101 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,040 The only thing you could see was the color. 102 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,040 That's right. 103 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:56,040 Did this object at any time cast as a frontal or behind it anything which might give you 104 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,040 some idea or a comparison of signs? 105 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,040 No. 106 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,040 I see. 107 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:07,040 Couldn't I have had an inlubrige to build in the streets, that sort of thing? 108 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:08,040 No. 109 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:13,040 You were sure of this could not have done it. 110 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:18,040 A water hose or a hand type of known vehicle. 111 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,040 No, I can't be sure of that. 112 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,040 As I said, I see the objects in the sky, right? 113 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,040 I can't tell you what it was. 114 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:30,040 If I were to say it could be a water balloon, but I'm not sure what it is, I don't know. 115 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:36,040 Well, the reason I'm asking these questions is that in so many of the reports, there is 116 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:43,040 always statements to confusion of what this might have been or what it might not have been. 117 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,040 I'm not making any statements as to what it was. 118 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:51,040 I won't be describing what it looked like to be in color in the silence. 119 00:06:51,040 --> 00:07:00,040 Would you, character, give any idea in the estimation of the signs? 120 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:06,040 You mean at the time, as I would say, approximately all figure was and yes. 121 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:11,040 Well, as I described before, one of the most likely versions of one of these, I read by 122 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,040 the 123 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,040 Scholar, maybe just a little bit bigger. 124 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,040 Well, I just had you observe this object first in the windshield of the car. 125 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:26,040 Did you at this later time get off the car to observe the object? 126 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Yes. 127 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,040 You can stop the car and get off the car. 128 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,040 Murray? 129 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,040 How about the Alton-Denny position on the windshield? 130 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:40,040 Was there any definite outline to it? 131 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,040 Or was it more or was it? 132 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,040 No, it seemed to me just a bright red color. 133 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,040 It seemed to me very well. 134 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:55,040 How did this object disappear from your view? 135 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,040 It kept happening in our peaceful direction. 136 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,040 We still had it in sight when we left. 137 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:10,040 At that time, it was rather small as I said before, as we see it every morning, it's like 138 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,040 a bright star that can still change colors. 139 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,040 Had it been in the Alton-Denny position, forget it. 140 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,040 It happened to me, I see. 141 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,040 It didn't change speed, though, did it? 142 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,040 No, I wouldn't say so. 143 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,040 It's pretty hard to do that, right? 144 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:31,040 The volume seemed to me more volume in the control car, approximately, at that time when you traveled. 145 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,040 We've got to get one giant move here up around 65, 146 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,040 setting up an hour between here and the company, probably, but no use. 147 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:50,040 But have you seen any other objects that might be listed as, let's say, unidentified objects? 148 00:08:50,040 --> 00:09:00,040 But general heritage and all that kind of wisdom was lacking in relation to a minute. 149 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:13,040 I'm going to go back into it first part of that, but it was not the large piece of the site that was laid on the southwest side of the city. 150 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:19,040 Well, I think we also have another example of a little city water that was in the city of New York. 151 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,040 Right? 152 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,040 Right, excuse me. 153 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:31,040 Well, by the time that they didn't see anything, we got out there to meet this resemblance. 154 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:42,040 Let me say, Starfish was an even bigger penis than the large Stardust guy with the white and the red and white and green light. 155 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:47,040 And it didn't move. It was quite high, I don't know, wouldn't that make the opposite? 156 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,040 It was driving in the northeast direction. 157 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:59,040 We followed them down to the other back on the line, just over on the roadside line, which is just east of New York. 158 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,040 Yes. 159 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,040 Now, our purpose is identification here. 160 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:15,040 Mr. Rogers, they can tell us your occupation and over half of the police statements that you're educating in your background. 161 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:24,040 Well, I worked for one of my county sheriffs, a president of the sheriff, and it was about four years graduating last week. 162 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:34,040 I have a room working there, and about 19 years in military service, and the president of the county commander of the National Guard came to the town. 163 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:39,040 I think we've covered quite a bit of information here in detail on the object. 164 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:45,040 How many witnesses or other people in the area you have to meet also saw it? 165 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:50,040 Well, Mr. Stewart here was with us in the car at Iowa City. 166 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:56,040 Mr. Warren Stewart from the town of Grandham, and Ross being joined with us and his assistant. 167 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,040 There was five in our car. 168 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:06,040 There was two in their car with Mr. West because he was the department. 169 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,040 I believe you saw it from the right. 170 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:14,040 A year in police department, and I know one car with a radio announcer from our local radio station was with him. 171 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,040 They saw it. 172 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,040 They were on my fastest saw. 173 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,040 A little bit less than a billion here. 174 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,040 They saw the same object. 175 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,040 They had some police department officer wise. 176 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,040 He was looking at it to build glasses. 177 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,040 He said that they're in Atlanta, and that's how they're making some problems. 178 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:39,040 They're in Atlanta, and that means they're also in the city. 179 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:48,040 I can't remember if it seems to me that it's been rolled coming, but it was not coming at the same time. 180 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,040 So obviously we were talking back and forth on the police radio. 181 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,040 It takes in more stuff from the road coming. 182 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:00,040 Mr. Rodgers was any of this information relating to a building center? 183 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,040 In other words, was the Air Force notified of this? 184 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,040 It was. 185 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,040 I see. 186 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,040 By our radio dispatcher in Illinois? 187 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:08,040 It was our department. 188 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,040 They made a remark, are you kidding? 189 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,040 And seemed to be taking it as a lie. 190 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,040 At that time, the way I was told Mr. Dierce was part of the surrender here in San Francisco. 191 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,040 There were no gentlemen from the floor center here to investigate? 192 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,040 No, not that home. 193 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,040 They might have come in after I went home, something like that right in here. 194 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,040 They were moving there? 195 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,040 Yeah. 196 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:40,040 Do you know of anyone who might have witnessed the thing very close to the ground? 197 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:41,040 No. 198 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:49,040 There's a letter here that was mailed in from the company mailed in here to the African cities. 199 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,040 They had a plane in Britson, and it was an able tool. 200 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,040 But I can't tell you where the letter is. 201 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,040 Not on the man claims, but he saw something, the same sort. 202 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,040 I'd have to go to see if I'd find it in the records. 203 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:07,040 The, uh, Mr. Stewart, when he first came in that night, he said to me, he says, have you 204 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,040 seen any bright lights in the sky in the southwest? 205 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,040 And I looked at it in the last. 206 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,040 I said, no, I haven't seen any of that in all. 207 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:19,040 And he said that he had had a home call from a friend of ours out in the airport room, 208 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:24,040 which after this was all over, but that's when he gave up the phone and threw it in the back. 209 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,040 He calls all of this, and he says that he had called that word to somebody else, called 210 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,040 and used this man's name. 211 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:35,040 Well, I wonder if the other gentleman here would care to make some remarks. 212 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,040 I missed your name. 213 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,040 Mr. Stewart. 214 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,040 I'm Mr. Stewart. 215 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,040 And you're from the, uh, Telegraph, is that it? 216 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,040 Telegraph. 217 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:43,040 I'm from the family of the two. 218 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,040 Look here in the ether. 219 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,040 Yes, sir. 220 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,040 The article, give it here. 221 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,040 It's in the newspaper, covering this incident. 222 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,040 The next day. 223 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,040 The article was not the lady in the wire services or what? 224 00:13:55,040 --> 00:14:04,040 Yes, I called, um, I called the Associated Press, um, sometime around 11, 15, 1130 that night, 225 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,040 the, um, Detroit Bureau. 226 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,040 I see. 227 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:15,040 And, uh, gave him quite a story on what I had seen, what I, what I thought I had seen, 228 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:22,040 and, uh, at least the Michigan, um, branch out of the Detroit Bureau, he carried a story 229 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,040 the next day. 230 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,040 How much it was picked up on a Trump wire, I don't know. 231 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,040 I see. 232 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:34,040 We didn't receive any reports of this incident and, uh, he tried, in any of the, uh, he tried 233 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:35,040 to lose papers. 234 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:42,040 You've had any, uh, information that you would like to give personally as to the site? 235 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:49,040 Well, as far as I'm concerned, uh, I have the slightest idea of what I saw. 236 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:56,040 I'm thoroughly convinced that, uh, I saw a definite, uh, light pattern. 237 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,040 I'm sure that it wasn't a reflection. 238 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:07,040 I'm sure that it wasn't a star or a, uh, meteor. 239 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:17,040 I'm deadly positive that, uh, I have never seen any, uh, aircraft in the sky, which, 240 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,040 uh, at night, which resemble it. 241 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,040 There was no shape or form as far as I could tell. 242 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:31,040 It was simply a light that, uh, behaved very, very strangely as far as anything I'd ever 243 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,040 seen before. 244 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:37,040 Did you compare this light, uh, for example, to, uh, a dime or a nickel or a half of a 245 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,040 dollar or something like that? 246 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,040 You had a comparison of size? 247 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,040 Well, it would be closer to a dime than anything else. 248 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:52,040 At one point, just as we turned around, our car turned around when we first made, when 249 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:58,040 we first saw the light, it was pointed out to us from the other control car by radio. 250 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:04,040 We asked the lower, all third of the full moon, which was coming up in the east. 251 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:10,040 We were traveling west and we turned around and started that east, uh, at the direction 252 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:11,040 from the other control car. 253 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,040 And the light crossed the, maybe the lower third, the moon. 254 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,040 Still, on the full moon behind it, there was no shape. 255 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,040 In other words, it wasn't like an airplane. 256 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:28,040 It could be, would it cross the full moon or cross a portion of the moon from your 257 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,040 lines of vision. 258 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:36,040 But the brilliant point of that light stood out in the face of the moon, even though the 259 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,040 moon was behind it and it was a full moon. 260 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,040 Then you would say that this object was definitely salt-luminous. 261 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,040 Oh, definitely. 262 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,040 Yes, no. 263 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,040 I got the impression, excuse me, I would say I got the impression of this light, uh, I 264 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:50,700 don't know if it was a 265 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:56,040 Gordon Center or anybody else, but I got the impression that the darn thing was, uh, was 266 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,040 more of a pulsing than blinking. 267 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,040 Is that some raw... 268 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,040 No, no, that was a bit... 269 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,040 Right there. 270 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,040 That's a weird way to go. 271 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,040 That's the only way I'm going to go. 272 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:18,040 Now, did this pulsation get it appeared to contract in its band, perhaps, in its shape? 273 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,040 Well, I haven't talked to Gordon or anybody else about this, but my impression of the 274 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:28,040 thing was that not too long ago on television there was a, uh, some television program. 275 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:33,040 There was an operation involving even heart, which chest was laid open. 276 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,040 Yeah. 277 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,040 And, uh, the heart kind of does this. 278 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,040 That's the type of thing, yes. 279 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,040 And, uh, that's the way the thing appeared to me. 280 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:53,040 This light came in pulses or thrives rather than blinking as you'd see on an airplane 281 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,040 crossing the sky right now, maybe, for instance. 282 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,040 Well, can we go over the lights again as you observe the changes in the light? 283 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:05,040 I'm just thinking that the changes in the light is thought. 284 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,040 That, uh, might be where it's supposed to be. 285 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:13,040 Well, there were three colors that I saw, a red, a white, and a green. 286 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:20,040 There seemed to be, no, the light all centered at one point. 287 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:26,040 It wasn't, uh, one, such as an airplane would be a blinking light on the tail, 288 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:32,040 another that would define a wing, or another would define the nose, or the top. 289 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,040 It was all at one point all the time. 290 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:40,040 In other words, I got the impression that whatever it was, just was winking in, 291 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:46,040 just there was frowning in its entirety with this light, rather than a blinking light here 292 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:53,040 and another one there that would outline the shape of a plane or an object of some depth. 293 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,040 Uh, description. 294 00:18:55,040 --> 00:19:02,040 From your observation of this, uh, object, would you say if there was, uh, 295 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,040 any intelligence behind its maneuvers? 296 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:13,040 All of the awfully hard to say, I'd say the thing appeared to be under some form of control, yes. 297 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:22,040 In other words, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't just, uh, flitting about like a fly or a meteor 298 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,040 with no definite, uh, pattern to it. 299 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,040 It seemed to be under some form of control. 300 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,040 At various times in your observation of this object, 301 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:40,040 did you at any time note, uh, the wing direction, uh, such that perhaps the object could have traveled against the wind 302 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:46,040 or it actually wasn't going with the wind? 303 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,040 I was a conscious of the wind direction that night. 304 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,040 I see. How about any of the other channels? 305 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,040 It was not a particularly windy night, though. 306 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,040 It was a calm night. 307 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,040 Would you say that in the course of its travel, that it changed directions sufficiently 308 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:07,040 so that it could have gone contrary to the wind direction? 309 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,040 I don't say so, yes. 310 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:15,040 Certainly when it went up or down, it, uh, it went in two opposite directions. 311 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:25,040 In, in going into the sky or coming down, uh, we, we did not ourselves observe it, uh, traveling west. 312 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,040 All of the travel that we saw was east and northeast, 313 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:35,040 but, uh, from one of the other deputies who I have completely confidence in, 314 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,040 that, uh, you saw it before we did, that it was traveling west. 315 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,040 Definitely. 316 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:49,040 So, as you first saw it, it would be traveling, uh, northwest. 317 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,040 Uh-huh. 318 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:58,040 Does this object appear solid to you or does it appear as only a source of light? 319 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:04,040 I'm afraid I couldn't answer that question, uh, other than, uh, 320 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,040 to say it seemed to be a point of light, 321 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:15,040 but I didn't see any shape or form any, any solid object or matter of any kind that I could identify. 322 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,040 You followed this thing in a current. 323 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,040 I was with the deputy right now. 324 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:24,040 Uh, at any time, did this thing, uh, was it going away from you all the time 325 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,040 or did it any kind of come towards you at all? 326 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:34,040 Well, it came towards us, uh, when we first observed it, 327 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:41,040 because, uh, we were traveling west of town looking for it, 328 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,040 and it was, it was coming northeast at that time, 329 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,040 so we were, it must have crossed, uh, we didn't have to see it, 330 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,040 but it must have crossed our, uh, the top of our cars. 331 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,040 Well, we have, that was one of the, this object was standing still at your time, 332 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,040 when it was in a constant motion. 333 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:04,040 It appeared to stand still to me on, uh, I'd say three or four different occasions, yes. 334 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,040 Four different occasions. 335 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,040 And have you thought these were for traveling? 336 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,040 Not that I could see them. 337 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,040 I was a patch of red mist or fog, 338 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:20,040 but, uh, in my mind at least I associated it with a display of northern lights, 339 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,040 which was brief but quite brilliant. 340 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:31,040 We had heard a report from a witness who stated that he saw this object, 341 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:36,040 and this witness, uh, he's from Detroit, 342 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:43,040 and he stated to us that he observed this object very close to the ground, 343 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,040 and that when he first came in contact with it, 344 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:51,040 he noticed several fires, stopped alongside the road, 345 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:56,040 and that he was forced to stop because his engine stopped as did all the others, 346 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:02,040 and that he and several other people, quite a few as a matter of fact, 347 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,040 saw this object in a field very, very close to the ground. 348 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:13,040 Now, uh, you have not knew anyone else who might have, um, 349 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,040 a better witness to this same event. 350 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,040 This is on the night of November 6th? 351 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,040 Uh, this was reported as November 7th. 352 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,040 Uh... 353 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,040 The, uh, what's been the evening of November 7th? 354 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:33,040 I'm not sure whether it was on the 7th or whether he, uh, some jacket us on... 355 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,040 No, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. 356 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,040 It was on the 7th. 357 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,040 Well, you said there were supposedly two paper reporters there. 358 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:47,040 Well, I was the only one from our staff on this particular night that Deputy Rogers and I talked to. 359 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,040 And to my knowledge, uh, I hadn't heard of any other. 360 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,040 I've talked with Hillsdale Daily News, I've talked with Jackson, 361 00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,040 the Ann Arbor News and the Monroe News, which are made at least around the area. 362 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,040 I don't have my own knowledge of anybody, Steve. 363 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:11,040 The thing is, we get reports of this type, and, uh, unless we can contact the gentleman directly 364 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:16,040 at this time who we're unable to do, we don't want to verify these two reports, 365 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:21,040 because in the past reports of this type have often been extremely misleading, 366 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:27,040 and, uh, some people tend to stress their imaginations moving too. 367 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:34,040 Well, it was about a week ago, or a week and a half ago, I was on a radio. 368 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:43,040 And Monroe, I'll take it back in honor, sent their car up to a local hill in the run there somewhere out of the world. 369 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:48,040 And Steve, they heard a word of light out there, and for them, they looked at it by the normal. 370 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,040 They called back, and he says, all right, I'll call the observatory. 371 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,040 Ann Arbor's an advocate for the Toe School. 372 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,040 And that's where they ended right there. 373 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,040 I wouldn't have had a moment to do that. 374 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,040 You didn't get any reports of, uh, no, I just was over at least radio. 375 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,040 In other words, we can hear Ann Arbor dispatcher go to the cars. 376 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,040 Yes. 377 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,040 And they use the car to go up on this particular area of South of town or something, 378 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,040 and they go to this lake in Skye, and then the man called back, and he says, 379 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,040 all right, I'll call the observatory and I'll get to the Toe School. 380 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:25,040 Were there any other reports here in the Asian area of similar objects being cited since the 6th of November? 381 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,040 Yes, there was. 382 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,040 There was a young photo often here one night. 383 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:36,040 It was the same night that Ann Arbor had this broadcast, and he thought the same thing that we did from that tall beach in David. 384 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,040 You don't know who this gentleman was. 385 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,040 No, we didn't. 386 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,040 Well, I think that we have pretty well covered the trail. 387 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,040 How do you have something more of you as I do? 388 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:52,040 Uh, you stated that if someone stated at what time, if you were outside of the car, 389 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,040 I'm sure you would say, we were all in the store, brass gear, system brass gear, 390 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:05,040 and we were all out of the car after we left Jerobon West, almost to the Clayton Road, 391 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,040 as we were talking Mr. Lettson goes and he's trying to get us to the district. 392 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,040 And David wants to get us to the area where the island was, and we thought of it from there. 393 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,040 And any one out of the car? 394 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:23,040 Was there an indication that we had a sound or anything? 395 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,040 Nothing. 396 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,040 There was one out of the sound. 397 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,040 Of course, we were in the ghost car too, but while we were outside of the car, 398 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,040 these Derbys, they hadn't done anything. 399 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,040 I remember it sound. 400 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,040 Sometimes it was sound, but I didn't. 401 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,040 If it was an airplane, would you have been close enough to hear the sound of an airplane? 402 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,040 You proxened the distance that you were. 403 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:54,040 I believe that when we first were serving in on to where the object was, 404 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,040 that we were close enough to be able to do it through a model. 405 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,040 Travelling in the car, I know. 406 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,040 And I wouldn't say that it was a motor or a dirt field. 407 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,040 I would never go to this whole really far house that I had. 408 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,040 All this was the time. 409 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,040 I wouldn't say that you'd be able to hear a sound. 410 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,040 I don't know if you can hear an airplane engine. 411 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:19,040 If it's a solid, nor can it even, it's hiding here. 412 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,040 But there was no sound to this. 413 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:28,040 One question I would like to ask before we run out of tape on this particular fact. 414 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:36,040 Would you carry any permission for this information to be released to the National Investigations Committee on Arid Opinion? 415 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,040 If you don't, you'll keep this strictly in confidence or we can destroy the tape as you wish. 416 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,040 That's a good thing. 417 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,040 I've approved doing the investigation. 418 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,040 We're coming on a date by 5-6 in the mid-20s. 419 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,040 Travelling for the honesty is far as I'm concerned. 420 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,040 I've never believed in anything of that. 421 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,040 I've always figured that the United States had found that there were some rhythms that I've never told anybody. 422 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,040 I still can't believe what I saw up there. 423 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,040 Because I'm a gay person. 424 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,040 All the hair and things are a little bit different. 425 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,040 I do. 426 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,040 But to me it's a little bit hell of a big star. 427 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,040 And brilliant is something else. 428 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,040 Well, the reason I happened to this, I wouldn't say it was any maddening. 429 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,040 It may have been it was me who was maddening. 430 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,040 It's a slice of that. 431 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,040 Well, may we send this information to Washington? 432 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,040 Far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly alright. 433 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:31,040 Well, we know that the National Investigations Committee is a very responsible organization. 434 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,040 It is directed by Major Dominique Keeho, United States Marine Corps, retired. 435 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:42,040 And he has done extensive work in research on I&I, 5-5-5-6. 436 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,040 And he also published a few books on the subject. 437 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,040 And we would like to have information on this information to him. 438 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,040 I'm sorry. 439 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,040 Perfectly alright with me. 440 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,040 Before I think runs off, we did have a complaint here one night. 441 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,040 I was never verified. 442 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,040 But the Steve Tran, I believe it was. 443 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,040 Once the other fellow works out there, 444 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,040 he's got something to do with the speech they needed to have around town. 445 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,040 All kind of kind of... 446 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,040 I think I'm kind of... 447 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,040 I think I'm kind of kind of... 448 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,040 I don't know if he was ever in the radio station. 449 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,040 Keeho over, Paul Keeho over called up here on the night and said that the farmer had fallen in. 450 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:28,040 From Bob Mattock, he said there was a flying saucer sitting by the tree. 451 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,040 He wanted to go with us, but we wouldn't take him with us. 452 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,040 We went out there and never did. 453 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,040 The farmer was flying in place. 454 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,040 He'd be right across the street. 455 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:42,040 Is this particular farmer familiar with even a training or... 456 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,040 I mean, I didn't even find him. 457 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,040 You know, schools have a horse way down here, you know, a horse way. 458 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,040 We went back one time, I'm pretty sure there was a little guy in the street, but I didn't do anything back there. 459 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,040 It was a project that I was complaining about, seeing the chickens. 460 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:04,040 So, you know, the idea is to do the same work, but you know, I was like, you know, we had been out there, 461 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,040 but we were all down there, we were all over there, an hour and a half. 462 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:13,040 Trying to look for somebody, you know, who would be expecting us to come along. 463 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,040 I had flown an airplane to the night, no tear or a tear or so forth. 464 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:24,040 And I had been flying an airplane, and around the station, apparently, over the next three years, 465 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,040 airplanes come in with their landing. 466 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:32,040 It definitely wasn't what I said before, I mean, it was like that particular form of life, 467 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:39,040 because there's a hesitation between when the flight goes out, this one comes on, this one comes back on again. 468 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:50,040 There was no, it was as ball-based as far as I'm concerned, it was a false setting of life that would resemble a heart beating. 469 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:57,040 I never saw a telegram, I never tied the two together for this television program, I hadn't seen that, so I didn't tie the two together. 470 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:03,040 Was there any known aircraft in the facility at that time? 471 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:09,040 Well, that was kind of a funny thing, because I kept trying to tell myself that that's what it must be. 472 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:19,040 Possibly a highly-targeted character, that was what kept me under my mind because of the elevator motion, the up and down motion. 473 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,040 And so I think I was looking all the time for an airplane. 474 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:32,040 But to my knowledge, there wasn't a thing all over, earlier in the evening, I didn't see a plane in the sky, 475 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:37,040 or didn't see an aircraft. When we were down in Deerfield, didn't you think we saw an airplane in the sky? 476 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:43,040 That was after all what we called an air plane, because after we looked back at the light, 477 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:50,040 there seemed to be a plane in there, because we wondered if it was something that could set up to check into it, the same general area. 478 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,040 Was it, would you know what I'm looking at? 479 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:59,040 No, I wouldn't do it. But that was a jet, although there was some sound with that airplane, 480 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:05,040 and it was a considerable distance away, which leads me to believe that there had been any sound with this thing we'd seen, 481 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:12,040 we'd heard it. We'd heard it answer questions that he didn't hear, and I certainly didn't, and I was trying to. 482 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,040 Why was it that you liked that? 483 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,040 Well, I did spend pretty well covered. 484 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,040 You covered that? 485 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:34,040 At any time, would you say that you noticed that this change of color had any relation to the speed of the object? 486 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,040 So, you would control the speed? 487 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,040 No. 488 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:42,040 Is it the change of color was, say, an actor affecting the change in speed? 489 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:56,040 No, in fact, there was absolutely no correlation between the light, the different shades, colors, and the movements of the object, 490 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,040 at least that I could see in the time I was watching. 491 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,040 It didn't seem, there was no pattern to begin with. 492 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,040 It wasn't red, green, white, white, red, green, white, red, green, white. 493 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:17,040 It was red, maybe red, red, and then green, and white, and green, white, white, red, green. 494 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:24,040 I mean, there was just no given pattern that I could determine, or any of us could. 495 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,040 On that particular evening, was there any report at any time, 496 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:39,040 the interference through local radio stations or perhaps any television that people in the area might have been observing? 497 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,040 Not to my knowledge. 498 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:48,040 I think if there would have been any interference with television, we'd have heard about it because we got a hand-mopper out of the gun here that's used in all of them, 499 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,040 and that the people heard about it constantly. 500 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,040 So, I had a lot of angry reports of that. 501 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,040 There was no interference to be sure what's where. 502 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:04,040 No, not in my radar, because there wasn't any one with this normal static, and you just, well, it did not go. 503 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,040 There wasn't any change in that at all. 504 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:15,040 Well, could anybody elaborate a little bit more on the, well, the white pattern of this thing? 505 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,040 Was it a jerking motion or a smooth or... 506 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,040 All of that jerking was very smooth. 507 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:32,040 In other words, the only point of why, in fact, yes, as far as the speed, you know, is fast, what you're saying, a conventional flying jet. 508 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:37,040 Most of the time I was conscious about slow motion, rather than how fast. 509 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:44,040 The fact is that if you wondered how it stayed afloat, it stayed in the air because it was going so slow. 510 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:49,040 That's why I tried to associate with a more accurate one. 511 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,040 And when I tried to grab it, I knew I was going to do it. 512 00:34:54,040 --> 00:35:02,040 But this thing at any time, we'll go back and say, appeared to... 513 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:09,040 Maybe it's just kind of far past, but it did appear to be evading in anything. 514 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,040 I was kind of conscious of evading this thing out. 515 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,040 Anything we did, it didn't seem to make a difference to what I did. 516 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,040 That's why I'm trying to know. 517 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,040 I couldn't see any. 518 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,040 Could you guard my passion? 519 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,040 Well, I think I just made a scene that had a little different angle than the rest of them did. 520 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:37,040 When we first started, it was considerably lower than what you thought. 521 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:44,040 As we noticed at the end of the cadmium, as I told these gentlemen before, it was considerably lower. 522 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,040 I tried to grab it, and then they smiddy went along with the same thing. 523 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:54,040 It looked to me about the length, and just about the same length as real, talking with the red light on top of it. 524 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,040 And then it took off through the solid west. 525 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,040 And then it hushed and fixed it up there, and it was cut back and was coming back our way. 526 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,040 But when we was following it, it was solid, then it was 34. 527 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:13,040 And when we picked it up again, it was larger than 34, coming back this way. 528 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:22,040 Would you care to make any estimation of perhaps the possible number of people in the cadmium who might have been with us? 529 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,040 I wouldn't have any of that myself. 530 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,040 I wouldn't have any of it, because the rails would jam up that night. 531 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,040 Everybody was talking. 532 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:35,040 You didn't see people out of the street in town, in Washington, that sort of thing? 533 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,040 Well, I was in the pharmacy of the drill car, and I was trying to keep buying the things. 534 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:44,040 I kept going in the direction I was looking for, but we came through town and let it out of the rush suit. 535 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:50,040 Would you say that this was definitely well over time? 536 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,040 No, I wouldn't say it was well over time. 537 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,040 You mean on the other hand, did it happen? 538 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,040 Either that night or the previous night. 539 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:04,040 I don't mean the previous night. Excuse me. You could see the night after the newspapers. 540 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,040 Oh, well, first I hear, I've been involved in the beating about this thing. 541 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:14,040 Well, I had some experience along that line yourself. 542 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:29,040 But I would say that there are anyway a minimum of 30 different people have talked to me and since the thing that happened, 543 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:34,040 they saw this or saw that themselves. 544 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,040 Of course, the radio was carrying a running sound. 545 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,040 Anybody had to hold a radio station? 546 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,040 Well, the radio station was running, running at the house. 547 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,040 During the actual observation, was it? 548 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,040 I think it was T.J. 549 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,040 Was that part of the office work? 550 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,040 He was my assistant. 551 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,040 He was with the Navy? 552 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,040 Yeah, the Navy was the major police for them. 553 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,040 And what were they retaining in their house? 554 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,040 I don't know. 555 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,040 I know that when I got back. 556 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,040 I believe that that was taken from Elmphol's gas station. 557 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,040 That was taken in a telephone recording. 558 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,040 Oh, telephone recording. 559 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,040 When I got back, I was like, I know what I was doing. 560 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,040 My wife needed to find a home where T.J. had been, of course. 561 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,040 I had to do one, and I said, well, if I started to tell you, you'd think, 562 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,040 I'd be like, hurry up, hurry up. 563 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,040 But then I told her, she said, oh, yeah, that was the radio. 564 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,040 And that was the first hint I had. 565 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:30,040 So then she said that every so often they were breaking in with the news 566 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,040 about the time when everything was down and what it was doing. 567 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,040 So I suspect that a lot of people that probably wouldn't have had any 568 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,040 first hand knowledge of it did pick it up in those radio broadcasts 569 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,040 during the evening in Montana would have known something about it 570 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,040 through that media. 571 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,040 I think Elmphol's sound was working. 572 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,040 I think the partners only did Elmphol's and the others on the same night. 573 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,040 About the same time that you go to the sub-camp. 574 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,040 And then she was watching the call of her daughter. 575 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,040 And when he came out to see it, I remember that it was down the line 576 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,040 in trees or something was in the way that he couldn't see it. 577 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:11,040 That's the first way that appeared that I had smitten out there 578 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,040 in the cabs, of course. 579 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,040 That would be just soft-forced to see it. 580 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,040 That appeared to us before. 581 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,040 When we first looked at it and it said it was a radio tower standing there 582 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,040 and we go, no, there's nothing there. 583 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,040 It was just sort of a dead sex. 584 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,040 Well, I'd say there were recently 30 people that told me that they saw it. 585 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,040 But when they got it, I told them. 586 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,040 Well, I think we fairly well covered the information 587 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,040 and understood them and said thank you very much gentlemen for this interview. 588 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,040 And at this time I'd also like to have you step up to the microphone 589 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,040 and give your name, occupation, 590 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,040 any other information of that type that you would like to add. 591 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,040 Well, my name is Walden Stewart. 592 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:56,040 I'm the colony editor of the newspaper here in Edwin, the Edwin Telegram. 593 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:02,040 I had five years' service in the Marine Corps during World War II. 594 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,040 I'm in a retired reserve now. 595 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:12,040 And I think that I have a little bit of knowledge of flying objects 596 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,040 from having been in service that way. 597 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,040 I did quite a considerable amount of flying. 598 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,040 But this is the first time I had ever seen anything of this nature. 599 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,040 I'm kind of like Gordon. 600 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:32,040 I was strictly valuing the whole thing until this particular night came along. 601 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,040 My name is Gordon Rogers, definitely sure. 602 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,040 None of my counting. 603 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:45,040 Quite a bit of military service and I don't ever remember seeing anything in a service that resembled this particular item. 604 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,040 And I've done quite a bit of flying also. 605 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:52,040 My name is Lyle Letts, ambulance driver for the average funeral home, Adrian, Michigan. 606 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:57,040 Thank you very much gentlemen for your cooperation in this area.